tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post2493789683716082467..comments2023-09-25T05:59:04.926-07:00Comments on Michael Patrick Leahy: October 31, 2008 State of Hawaii Director of Health Department Statement Raises More Questions About Barack Obama Birth CertificateMichael Patrick Leahyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02682711779511069175noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-89724831900375690952009-01-14T23:44:00.000-08:002009-01-14T23:44:00.000-08:00JDL51 - You forgot to read the rest of the 1790 ac...JDL51 - You forgot to read the rest of the 1790 act:<BR/><BR/>"And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States"<BR/><BR/>Obama is not natural born - he may not even been naturalized (clearly different than natural-born) because no one has found his swearing in, but he can be considered a US citizen for a number of reasons - which is why he was never contested as a US senator for being qualified.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-91834691982853407782008-12-11T14:13:00.000-08:002008-12-11T14:13:00.000-08:00I give up! When you can just invent your own "fac...I give up! When you can just invent your own "facts," there's no point in continuing the discussion. One last time, for the record, the Hawai'ian Director of Health <I><B>never</B></I> said that he was born in Honolulu, <I><B>nor</B></I> did she say that the COLB posted on various pro-Obama websites was authentic. <I><B>All</B></I> that she said is that a BC <I>exists</I>, that she <I>has seen it</I>, and that HI law <I>doesn't allow her to say</I> what is on it.<BR/>There are two sets of legal challenges wending their way through various courts. Some rely on questioning citizenship (where place of birth is pertinent), while others focus on the meaning of natural born. As far as Natural born citizen is concerned, its definition must be sought in prior SCOTUS decisions, such as U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898).NJ_Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15039653716902649954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-44085390414364700842008-12-05T15:29:00.000-08:002008-12-05T15:29:00.000-08:00Also, from wikipedia,"The phrase "natural born Cit...Also, from wikipedia,"The phrase "natural born Citizen" is not clearly defined anywhere in the Constitution, as is true with most Constitutional terms." If you assume that only people born in the 50 states are natural born, then John McCain and Barry Goldwater were ineligible to run for president, and some even question Al Gore's eligibility because he was born in DC. What is clearly missing in this debate is common sense. Obama's mother was born in the U.S. The only evidence I've seen, and it was verified by the HI Director of Health who looked at the original certificate, is Obama's BC which clearly states that he was born in Honolulu. Until clear documentary evidence from both HI and Kenya says differently, it's all just talk. And today a lawsuit was brought before the SC and that lawsuit even admits that Obama was born in HI, but they doubt his citizenship because his father was a citizen of the UK. So we have a natural born mother giving birth on U.S. soil to a son and some folks don't consider him to be a legitimate presidential candidate. Just another case of sour grapes.JDL51https://www.blogger.com/profile/07334493464921902503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-25996800010980405862008-12-04T18:41:00.000-08:002008-12-04T18:41:00.000-08:00To JDL51:A naturalized citizen is emphatically not...To JDL51:<BR/>A <I>naturalized</I> citizen is emphatically <I><B>not</B></I> a <I>"natural born Citizen."</I> What constitutes a naturalized citizen can be defined and modified <I>via</I> laws enacted by Congress and signed by the President (such as the Naturalization Act of 1790 which you quote.) Status as a natural born Citizen <I><B>cannot</B></I> be granted, altered, or removed by <I><B>any</B></I> law or regulation, neither can its definition be so altered. It is bound into the fabric of the Constitution, as the framers understood the term.<BR/>This is not to say that its meaning or circumstances can never be altered, but I believe it would take a Constitutional amendment, or a definitive action by the SCOTUS to do so.<BR/>It's a shame that the <I>Publius</I> never expounded on this subject.NJ_Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15039653716902649954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-38775909109220803022008-12-03T10:40:00.000-08:002008-12-03T10:40:00.000-08:00The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been ...The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790 that "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens." <BR/><BR/>Last time I looked, Obama's mother was a natural born U.S. citizen. So even if he was, contrary to any evidence that I have yet seen, born outside the U.S., he is still a naturalized citizen. If anyone has documentary evidence that his mother was not a U.S. citizen I have yet to see it. So going to the worst case scenario, or best case whatever your political persuasion is, if he was born in Kenya as some have speculated without proof, he would still be a natural born citizen. On the Hawaii BC issue. I would think that if the Director of Health saw his BC and it was of Kenyan origin, I would think she would mention it. Knowing the controversy drummed up by his detractors and the only reason for her to make a statement in the first place, the fact that she didn't say it was a Kenyan BC was because it was a legitimate HI state BC. Apparently some people think that everyone in the HI state government is involved in a massive coverup, even though the end result would be Obama is a naturalized U.S. citizen anyway. As I said before, get over it. He'll be around for at least four years, and now that the repubs have dusted off their principles after eight long years of being hidden in the closet, there'll be plenty of controversies to whip yourself into a frenzy over.JDL51https://www.blogger.com/profile/07334493464921902503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-16676256428169972862008-12-02T19:58:00.000-08:002008-12-02T19:58:00.000-08:00Follow up:I neglected to address JDL51's second co...Follow up:<BR/>I neglected to address JDL51's second contention - that a child born in the USA, even of Mexican parents, would be a "natural born" citizen<BR/>Most constitutional scholars I have read adhere to the interpretation that "natural-born" means one upon whom no other sovereign state has a valid claim. One born in the US to immigrant parents would be a citizen, but would only be a natural-born citizen if his/her parents had become citizens <I>prior</I> to the birth. This is why the drafters of the Constitution included the language whereby they were "grandfathered" into the qualifications -- having been subjects of the British crown prior to the Revolution, they could not otherwise meet the requirement of "natural-born."<BR/>Since Mr. Obama freely admits that he was, at one point, a citizen of the UK, he fails to meet the requirement.NJ_Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15039653716902649954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-73672192215183889452008-12-02T19:43:00.000-08:002008-12-02T19:43:00.000-08:00To JDL51:What level of understanding of the Englis...To JDL51:<BR/>What level of understanding of the English language endows one with an ability to discern Hawai'ian birth from the Dr. Fukino's statement? Dr. Fukino only says that she has "seen and verified" that a certificate <B><I>exists</I></B>. She does <B><I>not</I></B> say that the certificate records a birth <B><I>in Hawai'i</I></B>.<BR/>As has been stated authoritatively in many other venues, Hawai'ian law permits a registration of birth for an infant born elsewhere. If the certificate that Dr. Fukino viewed included information that would support Hawai'ian birth, it would be a simple matter so to state - most logically at the end of her second paragraph.<BR/>As this is the position taken publicly by Mr. Obama, to do so would not entail release of confidential information. The question that must be asked is, why did Dr. Fukino neglect to make such a statement?NJ_Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15039653716902649954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-46833895659197274102008-11-26T17:45:00.000-08:002008-11-26T17:45:00.000-08:00You guys need to give it up. You also need to tak...You guys need to give it up. You also need to take an English course. What part of I have personally seen and verified do you not understand? And to those of you who say well, she didn't say if it was a Hawaiian BC, why would they have the birth certificate from another state there? The state of your birth would be the only state that would keep your birth records. The other controversy, Obama's father makes him ineligible to be president. Any person born in this country is a natural born citizen. If two mexicans have a baby born here, it's a natural born citizen. Period. Go bark up another tree. Maybe he did a loan somewhere that you can get someone to lie about and spend $100 million in taxpayers' money investigating.JDL51https://www.blogger.com/profile/07334493464921902503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-4771777133687390062008-11-18T09:01:00.000-08:002008-11-18T09:01:00.000-08:00The Director does not say it is a Hawaiian birth c...The Director does not say it is a Hawaiian birth certificate, just an original one. I want to see Obama release his original birth certificate that states the place he was born & the name of the doctor, etc. But what can an ordinary citizen do? I have written letters to my officials, who feed back the fact that the Director has said he was born in Hawaii, end of story. Will you be able to pursue this so that the real truth is revealed, whatever it may be?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-44813622910728896842008-11-16T19:40:00.000-08:002008-11-16T19:40:00.000-08:00as a question about the HI state law about releasi...as a question about the HI state law about releasing the doc only to a person of vital interest...are 300 million US citizens of no interest? are our rights as citizens of no consequence? I have no desire to divide the country, nor do I desire to see the pres-elect lose. But if proven that he is not eligible for the position, the loss falls squarely on his shoulders as does the division it will create throughout the country.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps accurate teaching of the Constitution would be a good start towards reviving a citizenry that tends toward complacency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-31149430772800103852008-11-16T12:31:00.000-08:002008-11-16T12:31:00.000-08:00justsomeguy,That finally parsed October 31 stateme...justsomeguy,<BR/><BR/>That finally parsed October 31 statement leaves some giant holes in the issue.<BR/><BR/>Does "on record" mean:<BR/><BR/>1. The original birth certificate signed by the attending physician?<BR/>2. An alternate document signed by one witness submitted more than one year after the fact, as allowed by Hawaii law at the time.<BR/>3. The record in the data base was entered in accordance with Hawaii rules and regulation and no original document exists.<BR/><BR/>Only #1 above is definitive proof of natural born status.<BR/><BR/>Voters have the right to know if it is #1, #2, or #3Michael Patrick Leahyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02682711779511069175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-74452238248601902782008-11-16T06:57:00.000-08:002008-11-16T06:57:00.000-08:00Hawaii has shown you the birth certificate, showin...Hawaii has shown you the birth certificate, showing a birth in Honolulu:<BR/><BR/>http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/<BR/><BR/>http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg<BR/><BR/>Here is the verification rom the state of HA:<BR/><BR/>http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf<BR/><BR/>“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."justsomeguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06087080083063065734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-49417190993885404232008-11-03T12:58:00.000-08:002008-11-03T12:58:00.000-08:00A lot of unnecessary screwing around about disclos...A lot of unnecessary screwing around about disclosure of this document Obama. If he is then throw down. Time is up. We thing the FORGERY department needs more. If it was me for a bank loan i could not forgo the want to produce it so WHY oh WHY is this man allowed to forgo this check for two qualifiers for the office.<BR/><BR/>You Yanks need to re think your electoral system before it gets you all in no end of crap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-86925001859241082012008-11-03T12:40:00.000-08:002008-11-03T12:40:00.000-08:00To the Anonymous commenter who asserts Obama was b...To the Anonymous commenter who asserts Obama was born in Hawaii, is therefore a US Citizen, and the burden of proof to prove otherwise is mine:<BR/><BR/>1. Constitutional scholar Bruce Fein disagrees with you on the burden of proof. The Constitution requires absolute certainity of natural born status. In such cases, the burden of proof is on the candidate who claims natural born status.<BR/><BR/>2. Presentation of the original birth certificate signed by an attending physician at a Honolulu hospital dated August 4, 1961 would be sufficient proof to me that he is natural born.<BR/><BR/>Curiously, Senator Obama has refused to authorize the release of this document for a year and a half.<BR/><BR/>If you were running for President and someone questioned your eligibility, would you not release your original birth certificate if it proved you were eligible ?Michael Patrick Leahyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02682711779511069175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-51815259313592680312008-11-03T12:23:00.000-08:002008-11-03T12:23:00.000-08:00Re-check your link - I just printed out Dr. Fukino...Re-check your link - I just printed out Dr. Fukino's statement from the Hawai'i DOH website you provided a link for. It's there. I would like to see the press conference you suggested so she can verify personally that she has seen said document and that it is genuine.<BR/>If there wasn't a problem then I believe Mr. Obama would produce said document in a heartbeat.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-48216394761656439652008-11-03T11:34:00.000-08:002008-11-03T11:34:00.000-08:00Right, her statement is she has merely seen that i...Right, her statement is she has merely seen that it is "recorded" somewhere. <BR/><BR/>And if the recording is right or wrong would take actually looking at the original, which apparently she has not done otherwise she would have said so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-31235230401623061882008-11-03T11:27:00.000-08:002008-11-03T11:27:00.000-08:00It's time for you to grow up. He was born in Hawa...It's time for you to grow up. He was born in Hawaii. That makes him a US citizen. Give it a rest. He doesn't have to release ANYTHING. He doesn't have to prove ANYTHING. You MUST PROVE he is not a legal citizen. You blew it as did Berg and Martin, two more crackpots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-69879334434386380822008-11-03T10:45:00.000-08:002008-11-03T10:45:00.000-08:00I am not an Obama supporter...I believe the law(s)...I am not an Obama supporter...I believe the law(s) should be obeyed (for a change)....but this issue of origin of birth seems like desperation on NON-Obama supporters, rather than adherence to the law. This country will be divided (beyond repair?) no matter who wins.4 Eyed Animation Projectshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12475298496999091584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36623192.post-61729956958870259912008-11-03T10:24:00.000-08:002008-11-03T10:24:00.000-08:00Notice the Hawaii Director of Health Department sa...Notice the Hawaii Director of Health Department says she saw an "original Birth Certificate", but she doesn't say it's a Hawaiian Birth Certificate......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com